In this episode, I interview Enreina Rizkiasri, a front-end software engineer from Indonesia who recently joined Givery. Enreina shares her role at Givery as part of the Track Test Team, which focuses on building a hiring platform to help engineers apply for jobs through exams. The mission of Track is to empower engineers and connect them with suitable companies. Enreina also discusses her day-to-day work as a front-end engineer using the scrum methodology. Tune in to learn more about Enreina's experience and the goals of Track at Givery.
Ryohei Watanabe: So, hi, Enreina Rizkiasri. Thank you for coming on to the podcast for Eight Values. So, audience, she is a front-end software engineer from Indonesia, and she recently joined Givery. Enreina, can you introduce yourself and tell the audience what you do at Givery? Of course.
Enreina Rizkiasri: Thank you for having me, Yohei.
Ryohei Watanabe: Yeah.
Enreina Rizkiasri: So, my name is Enreina. I work as a front-end software engineer in Givery as part of, like, it's called track test team. So, essentially, my team built a, like, hiring platform to help engineers apply for a job through taking an exam on our platform. So, that's basically a small part of what Givery does. And I'm a front-end engineer, so I mainly work on the, like, the user-touching interface of the platform. So, yeah, that's basically it.
Ryohei Watanabe: Yeah. So, you said you worked on track. Can you tell us a bit about the mission or the goal of what track is trying to do? Yeah.
Enreina Rizkiasri: So, we have the motive, like, empower engineering, you know, like, as an engineer to, like, as engineer, we know how challenging for us to find a job, right? Yeah. And, like, the mission of the track platform is to help both companies and also engineers to, like, find a match between the two. So, companies can hire the best talent available on the market, and engineers can also, like, find a suitable companies that's, like, the best environment that they work for working as an engineer. So, yeah, that's basically our mission.
Ryohei Watanabe: Cool. Yeah. So, as a front-end software engineer on the track team at Givery, what does your day-to-day look like?
Enreina Rizkiasri: Yeah, usually, it's more like a, we, the team mainly work on, like, scrum methodology, so it's, like, a two-week sprint. So, depending on the, like, the, which, like, is it, like, the end of the sprint or start of the sprint? Like, for example, at the start of the sprint, I usually, like, clarify some tasks that are assigned to me. Ideally, it's already, like, clear, like, what to do, of course, but sometimes it's not as clear. So, I usually clarify things to the product owner, designers, or maybe some, like, back-end engineers, like, the back-end API spec that I need to confirm when I'm working on some features. Once that's clarified, I usually just, like, try to implement it as quick as possible, like, not really, like, optimized and stuff like that, and probably, like, put it up for review for other front-end engineers to review it, and also for product owner or designers to ensure the feature that's implemented are confirming to the feature acceptance criteria. There may be, like, some, like, unclear lingo that I throw out there, but, yeah, that's basically my day-to-day job, at least until now, yeah.
Ryohei Watanabe: Cool. So, can you talk a little bit about, like, how often are you expected to, like, provide, like, status updates or, like, does your role as, like, a front-end engineer after you get the ticket, like, does it need or have a lot of oversight or...?
Enreina Rizkiasri: Basically, when you're assigned for, like, an ideal ticket, ideal, like, task, there should not be, like, too many interference from, like, stakeholders. Like, it's already a ticket, so it's already cleared, but sometimes there are just, like, things like updates, like, try to confirm, oh, is this the right criteria? That's where usually, like, we have a daily stand-up, so that's where usually, like, we raise some concerns or some blockers or some unclear requirements in that daily stand-up, and whether we want to, like, make a separate discussion, like, a deeper discussion outside of the stand-up, or is it already clear enough, something like that. So, it's not that often, so I'd say it's, like, a daily stand-up is around, like, only 15 minutes for, like, five engineers right now, but usually it will expand to, like, a Slack, we use Slack as a messaging platform, a Slack thread to clarify some requirements and stuff, so, yeah.
Ryohei Watanabe: Yeah, okay, and do you know how, like, Givery decides on which features to implement, or how they know that they're working on the right things for their users? Yeah, a really good question.
Enreina Rizkiasri: I think, so, what Givery as, like, an engineer hiring platform is a bit different from other competitors is that we work directly to companies as our customers, so they're, like, the customer success team are the ones that actually collects users' requests, users' feedback, user bug reports, and then it went through to our product owner, and then the product owner will try to prioritize which requests or bug reports are, like, more, having more impact in the future, like, how many customers does the request coming from, like, how many companies, and, yeah, after, like, the prioritization and the, like, it's, like, the requirements gathering are done, it's usually assigned to the engineering team, and we, yeah, make it, make it true, like, realizing the requested feature, yeah.
Ryohei Watanabe: Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. So, I think earlier you said that you spoke with product owners a lot to hammer out the requirements, for sure, and then you guys use Slack as well. With your teammates, like, other engineers and the people on the team, what is, what else do you usually discuss on the Slack channels?
Enreina Rizkiasri: Mm, I think the most, like, let's say, like, most often discussion happening on Stackdriver is mostly, like, from frontend to backend engineers, like, usually frontend team want this kind of API spec, and then backend team try to, like, console, like, try to find a, like, middle ground that's, like, best, like, makes everyone happy for backend, both backend and frontend, that's, like, the most often discussion that I have been, like, involved in. There's also some, like, like, frontend specific, like, even things like UI, UX, and stuff like that, even though we're engineers, and right now we already have designers which are dedicated to, like, handle this UI, UX thing, but sometimes frontend engineers also have some opinions or some suggestion to designers. That's where, like, engineers and product designer and product owners try to, like, find, like, an agreement which is the UX, UI, UX that's best for the customers. Of course, before the feature is released, we actually don't know, right, like, what's best to the customer. That's where, like, when we are, like, a bit, like, confused on which direction to make, we just, like, take one and then go for it. We try not to, like, block anyone through this endless discussion on Slack. So, yeah, that's what we're trying to do.
Ryohei Watanabe: Oh, cool. Yeah, it's really wonderful to hear that everyone's working together, especially with product designers, backend, frontend. Yeah, that sounds awesome. I'd like to, I think, change gears a little bit to one of the values here at Givery. I know that give and give is a big value here. Can you explain why that's important at Givery?
Enreina Rizkiasri: I think, like, as an engineering team, and not just engineering, but as, like, a team as a whole, we kind of, like, want to give our best and everything. But it's not to the extent that everyone is, like, really, like, stressed or really ambitious of, like, doing, like, their best but exceeding their, like, actual capability. So it's more like, okay, I'm, as part of the Givery team, I would like to, like, contribute to this platform that would empower other engineers out there. So it's kind of like, hey, I'm also an engineer, and I want to give something to the engineering community. I think the company is the best thing that facilitates that kind of opportunity. You can give something to the community through building stuff here.
Ryohei Watanabe: That's awesome. Is there a specific aspect of Givery's culture that you personally really like that's important to you?
Enreina Rizkiasri: Yeah, actually, this is, like, my first, like, company that I think all the people here are really good at what they're doing. But at the same time, they're also, like, not very rigid. They're very, very friendly. I haven't found anyone that's, like, not friendly in this company. And, yeah, also, like, everyone is trying to give their best in their capability. No one is feeling pressure to, like, especially in engineering, I don't, I haven't seen, like, that many, like, overworking, like, over time, like, doing some kind of engineering. Like, we, even in Slack, we kind of, like, have this, like, notion that, oh, I know, it's his end of the day. So even though we sent him or her a message to check on something, we can, like, just tell him, just please check first thing tomorrow morning, not today. It's okay. Unless it's a, like, critical thing. But I, it's really rare.
Ryohei Watanabe: I haven't seen that, yeah. And do you have an idea of, like, what you think contributes to this, like, team camaraderie? You said everyone's good and nice. Do you know why that is? Or do you have any, like, ideas of how that came to be? Okay.
Enreina Rizkiasri: So I think the first one is because, like, even before I joined, like, through, like, the team interview, I already have that friendly sense of thing from, like, the teams. And that, like, you know, like, when everybody's nice, you want to try to be nice to them, right? Sure, sure, sure. It's really hard to, like, be that bad person and trying to be, like, be negative at all times. So it's kind of, like, a chicken and egg problem, I guess. But I think the most, this is, like, what I heard from the, like, the hiring process here that we also, like, do value personality. Of course, we're looking for skill, like, personal skills. But personality also matters here. So if you like that kind of, like, friendly atmosphere kind of engineering team, yeah, I think, yeah, Gibra is the place.
Ryohei Watanabe: Yeah.
Enreina Rizkiasri: So far, that's, like, my observation.
Ryohei Watanabe: Yeah. Okay. This sounds, yeah, completely wonderful, by the way. Can we talk a little bit about just personal growth in terms of how a company can support that? Sure. Like, when you think about the arena that joined and the arena now, have you had the opportunity to work on any hard or soft skills that you wanted to develop? Yeah, because this is a Japanese, this is my first Japanese company that I've been working in.
Enreina Rizkiasri: And I personally wanted to improve my Japanese language skill.
Ryohei Watanabe: Sure.
Enreina Rizkiasri: But at the same time, I didn't have the, enough Japanese skill to work at, like, a 100% Japanese speaking company. I think Gibra really facilitate that middle ground where, like, even though the engineering team mostly uses English, our product owner speaks both English and Japanese. That's where she helps, like, translating between the business side and the product side. But, yeah, even, like, on Slack channel, there are, like, things coming, requests coming from customers, for example. It's written in Japanese. And for, like, employee gathering there, of course, there are Japanese only speaking employees. And, yeah, it kind of, like, helps me to, like, bridge the gap now. I learn more lingo here, like, engineering lingo, for example. Or even, like, other random words, I also, like, got the chance to learn here. So I think it's a really, like, best environment if you're interested in, like, both doing engineering thing and also, like, improve your Japanese language skill.
Ryohei Watanabe: Yeah. Cool. Can you describe the relationship between, I guess, the Japanese teams and then the English speaking engineering teams? Apart from the Slack channels, what kind of interactions do they have? And what is the relationship between the Japanese team and the international engineering team? Yeah. Yeah.
Enreina Rizkiasri: Honestly, from, like, my, like, my short, like, experience here, it's mostly on Slack channel. But there are some social gathering, like, after tea, after office party, after office gathering. And those things, like, sometimes I, yeah, we try to, like, cross the language barrier there. There are more people, more Japanese people who wants to, like, improve their English. And there are also, like, more English only, like, non-Japanese speaker people, especially from the engineering team, which who also, like, wants to improve. So we try to, like, cross the language barrier in that kind of event and stuff. Yeah. And also, the engineering team does not completely, like, it's not completely non-Japanese speaker.
Ryohei Watanabe: There's also, like, Japanese speaker.
Enreina Rizkiasri: So even within the engineering discussion, because sometimes we have to, like, if you saw our Slack channel, like, Japanese people speaks in Japanese and then, like, the English, the English speaking people replies in English. So it's really amazing on, like, even with the language barrier, we've managed to, like, work productively.
Ryohei Watanabe: That's awesome. Yeah. I kind of wanted to ask next about just the high employee retention at Givery. I know that Givery has quite a high employee retention just compared to most other companies. Do you have an idea of why that is?
Enreina Rizkiasri: Yeah, I think it goes back to the, I don't know, like, the personality of the team again. Like, it's, there's, like, at least until now, I haven't seen some negative thing. Like, of course, like, like, engineering process and stuff like that. There's always room of improvement. But from, like, the, like, the company culture, the, like, the work culture, like, the, we try to, like, there's no such thing like, like, too much overwork here. So I don't think there's, like, a good reason to leave this company unless other company, like, I would just say bluntly, like, offer you hire and you want to pursue that, of course. But other than that, I haven't seen, like, the deal breaker that you want to leave. That's maybe why the retention is high here.
Ryohei Watanabe: Is there anything you want the audience to know about Givery that they wouldn't know just outside looking in?
Enreina Rizkiasri: Yeah, I've heard, like, like, most questions from my colleagues or my junior that ask, like, if they want to, especially for international engineers, if they want to, like, work in a Japanese company, they're afraid that they will end up in working for a black company where you're, like, working, like, over time, all the time without, without, like, the right benefits.
Ryohei Watanabe: Sure.
Enreina Rizkiasri: So I just want to say that Givery as a company is far from that kind of company. So you don't have to worry about that.
Ryohei Watanabe: Great. I guess, like, lastly, like, during your software developer career, what have you learned about what it means to be a better software developer?
Enreina Rizkiasri: Yeah, actually, I had some, like, a big dilemma of, like, about being a software engineer itself, like, what is actually, like, being the best of, like, but I don't think we should, like, compare ourselves to, like, hey, I'm a front-end engineer, and that other front-end engineer is doing far better than us. So it's more like, I should, like, we should, like, think more about, like, being the best version of ourselves and make sure that you're still enjoying it. I personally, I did some, like, a bit hesitate if I want to, like, pursue this career, like, as a long-term employment, like, career thing, like, as a software engineer. But I managed to, like, especially, especially in this company, I managed to revive my, um, not really passion, but, like, my why I did I like this career. It's because, like, it's the closest thing to magic, I think. Like, you build something, like, through code, and then that code turns out to something tangible that other people can use. So, yeah, it's really fun. So what I learned is that if you enjoy engineering, if you want to, like, improve yourself, don't compare yourself, but more, like, try to learn gradually every day and be the best version of yourself. Yeah.
Ryohei Watanabe: Thank you so much, Enverina. That was Enverina from Giphery. She's a front-end engineer. Thank you so much for your time. I thought that was wonderful. Yeah. Thank you.